findtheway

Dating Women - More Frustrating Than Dating Men

40 posts in this topic

I hear you Giulia... When I was young (from childhood through to my 20s), I tended to get along better with boys, and later men (partially because I didn't like the catty and mean-spirited tendencies of girls/women, but also because when I was a kid, I wanted to do the things that boys were doing, and not what most girls were doing), and had more male friends than female ones (although I always had a female best friend, who tended to be a bit like me, some of whom turned out to be bi/gay)... But once I stopped having relationships with and dating men, and got into women only, I had more bi and lesbian female friends, I guess mainly because gay women (and bi women who are more on the side or being lesbian) tend to enjoy one another's company...and over the years, I have become much more comfortable with women in general, and have learned to trust them more than I once did...

 

I find that many of the bi/lesbian women I'm friends with (and those I've been lovers with) are emotionally very feminine and sensitive, and also feminine in appearance, but with a slight streak of masculinity in their demeanour, which is only detectable if you're tuned into it... But despite that slightly masculine thing going on, they are what I would describe as 'uber feminine'...

 

You have such a great perspective Benedetta.

 

I hide my sensitivity well LOL! Probably why I am more comfortable with people confiding in me than I am confiding in others. I don't see myself as "uber feminine"... that makes me think frills and lace which I am so not into... I have a classic femininity to me. It's the way I think that tends to skew masculine, or at least what society has told us to think of as masculine. So perhaps that might be the point here... SOCIETY has told us that a particular way of thinking is masculine. I'm not masculine... I'm just me. And I see from a lot of the posts on this thread that the way I think isn't actually unusual for a woman. And the women I had trouble with... or the women who drive me crazy... it's not because they are women... it's because their personalities and mine just don't mesh. Just like not all straight men mesh with me. Or all gay men. Or all lesbians. Or... all cats LOL!! I need to stop getting caught up in sweeping generalizations that define an entire gender by a few not so great experiences.

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I don't see myself as "uber feminine"... that makes me think frills and lace which I am so not into... I have a classic femininity to me. It's the way I think that tends to skew masculine, or at least what society has told us to think of as masculine. So perhaps that might be the point here... SOCIETY has told us that a particular way of thinking is masculine. I'm not masculine... I'm just me. And I see from a lot of the posts on this thread that the way I think isn't actually unusual for a woman. .

 

When I say 'uber feminine' I don't mean frills and lace, but the classic femininity that you speak of... Femininity to me signifies inner strength and intuitiveness, and the type of sensitivity that goes along with that...and I totally agree with you about the need to discard the stereotypical labels of femininity and masculinity, which as bi/lesbian women we defy, and must overcome... You proved this last point very well, because in the process of using these terms, I didn't succeed in getting my point across very well at all, and should have explained more... (When I use the term 'feminine', it's really in the context of feminism, and not in the stereotypical way.) I have edited my previous post, to clarify my use of the terms 'feminine' and 'masculine'.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have noticed a difference between bi/lesbian women who have a female partner, and have spent more of their life with women, and bi women who have a male partner, and have spent more of their life with men. It makes perfect sense because living with a woman, and spending lots of time around other bi/lesbian women, puts you on a different wavelength, and there is a lot of intuiting going on all the time (which leads some women new to the 'uber feminine' side of things to despair of all the 'mind-reading' that goes on)...

 

As an example, in my experience, women are more sensitive to and notice much more about their environment than men do, so will pick up on their partner feeling unhappy or unwell more quickly, and will ask about it... They will also pick up on very subtle changes over time, and there tends to be a different kind of connection between women than there is between a woman and a man... To me personally, this is a very positive thing, and I prefer it, which is why I have lived most of my adult life (from my mid-20s) as a lesbian, although I am technically bisexual...but for some women (those who come to bisexuality later in life, or after they have been married to a man, or have had one or more serious relationships with men, where they have lived with their partner), it can be too much to deal with, sometimes just because it is an unfamiliar way of being, but at other times because their emotional demeanour has changed as the result of being with men (i.e. they have adapted to interacting with the male of the species more effectively)...

 

When I first came to Shy, I wasn't really sure that I belonged here, because I am so much more on the lesbian side of things, but I have stayed, because I do think that my perspective, and those of other women like me (and there are quite a few here), are important...and I love women in general, so really enjoy hearing the perspectives of and interacting with women who are different from myself... It is a tremendous pleasure, and really does make me think in ways that I haven't before - so thank you, Giulia, and the rest of you Shy ladies! :)

Edited by BenedettaC
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I put a lot of the difference down to differing levels of hormones. Age also plays a part (due to the hormone levels decreasing/increasing).

 

An interesting article:Midlife Women - Why are they more assertive. What lies behind midlife women's new assertiveness? by T Apter

https://www.psycholo...-more-assertive

 

Add to that sterotyping and you have a recipe which helps to segregate the sexes.

Edited by HeartChakra
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When I first came to Shy, I wasn't really sure that I belonged here, because I am so much more on the lesbian side of things, but I have stayed, because I do think that my perspective, and those of other women like me (and there are quite a few here), are important...and I love women in general, so really enjoy hearing the perspectives of and interacting with women who are different from myself... It is a tremendous pleasure, and really does make me think in ways that I haven't before - so thank you, Giulia, and the rest of you Shy ladies! :)

 

Well, I'm glad you did. I wasn't sure if I'd stay when I joined either, but love all the different perspectives on here. Now, I look forward to logging on to read them.

 

I don't think men are easier just different.

 

I've never been in a long term relationship with a woman. So maybe I don't know. I dated a friend for a couple months, we never did more than kiss, but that relationship was great. We hung out, we talked, we got each other. Neither of us had dated a girl before, so we were figuring things out together, and we were there for each other. It ended when she met a guy.

My relationships with men really haven't been easy. Yes, they were a ton more straightforward, and did not have near the emotions she did. But, to me the same things that made them easy, make them infuriatingly difficult. I just wasn't raised to be so blunt about some of things I want, and at times I've felt I need to write it on a board and smack them with it before they would get the hint. As far as emotions, they may not have needed me for emotional support, but I haven't had one yet that knew how to support me emotionally. I've always had to have other friends I turn to. Maybe I just fall for the bad ones. I don't know, but for me neither is easier just different.

Edited by Questioningmylife
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When I say 'uber feminine' I don't mean frills and lace, but the classic femininity that you speak of... Femininity to me signifies inner strength and intuitiveness, and the type of sensitivity that goes along with that...and I totally agree with you about the need to discard the stereotypical labels of femininity and masculinity, which as bi/lesbian women we defy, and must overcome... You proved this last point very well, because in the process of using these terms, I didn't succeed in getting my point across very well at all, and should have explained more... (When I use the term 'feminine', it's really in the context of feminism, and not in the stereotypical way.) I have edited my previous post, to clarify my use of the terms 'feminine' and 'masculine'.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have noticed a difference between bi/lesbian women who have a female partner, and have spent more of their life with women, and bi women who have a male partner, and have spent more of their life with men. It makes perfect sense because living with a woman, and spending lots of time around other bi/lesbian women, puts you on a different wavelength, and there is a lot of intuiting going on all the time (which leads some women new to the 'uber feminine' side of things to despair of all the 'mind-reading' that goes on)...

 

As an example, in my experience, women are more sensitive to and notice much more about their environment than men do, so will pick up on their partner feeling unhappy or unwell more quickly, and will ask about it... They will also pick up on very subtle changes over time, and there tends to be a different kind of connection between women than there is between a woman and a man... To me personally, this is a very positive thing, and I prefer it, which is why I have lived most of my adult life (from my mid-20s) as a lesbian, although I am technically bisexual...but for some women (those who come to bisexuality later in life, or after they have been married to a man, or have had one or more serious relationships with men, where they have lived with their partner), it can be too much to deal with, sometimes just because it is an unfamiliar way of being, but at other times because their emotional demeanour has changed as the result of being with men (i.e. they have adapted to interacting with the male of the species more effectively)...

 

When I first came to Shy, I wasn't really sure that I belonged here, because I am so much more on the lesbian side of things, but I have stayed, because I do think that my perspective, and those of other women like me (and there are quite a few here), are important...and I love women in general, so really enjoy hearing the perspectives of and interacting with women who are different from myself... It is a tremendous pleasure, and really does make me think in ways that I haven't before - so thank you, Giulia, and the rest of you Shy ladies! :)

 

I love your perspectives and I am really glad you are here. I actually believe I can learn a lot from you. What you said makes a lot of sense to me... and I really appreciate how you make me stop and think. Thank you. :heart:

 

I understand now what you mean by "uber feminine." The friend I mentioned who has helped me so much on my journey refers to it as "Woman" as opposed to woman. You are a woman based on genetics. You are Woman based on those traits that are unique and special and powerful in the feminine soul. It is the source of our strength and resilience... Mother/Sister/Warrior/Lover/Friend... all the aspects of the Maternal that were once worshipped centuries ago in the pagan religions.

 

Of course I could just be getting a bit TOO philosophical now ;)

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You are Woman based on those traits that are unique and special and powerful in the feminine soul. It is the source of our strength and resilience... Mother/Sister/Warrior/Lover/Friend... all the aspects of the Maternal that were once worshipped centuries ago in the pagan religions.

 

Of course I could just be getting a bit TOO philosophical now ;)

 

Not too philosophical at all - you are absolutely spot on...

 

The goddesses of the ancients were designed to be the embodiments of feminine archetypes...and I think it's important to remember what has been lost (although, of course, representations of such goddesses abound in museums all over the world)...

Edited by BenedettaC
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findtheway, thank you, I was happy to read your posts because I feel similar things and I thought I was strange. I have trouble identifying as a lesbian because I have some attraction to men, especially visual, and have been with men before. But since I accepted myself I found that I prefer women romantically and sexually. I just don't care for men anymore.

Is it possible to be an "ex-bisexual"?

One thing I learned dating both men and women is that in love and relationships we are very similar. I've had men manipulate me, play games, tell me they adored me and never talk to me again. In the one serious relationship that I had with a man, I never knew what he really thought and wanted. I also always had female friends. I think we are all complicated. That's my experience.

 

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I think we are all complicated. Because it takes two people to have an attraction...........and two people to connect I kind of dislike blaming one party or disclosing the faults of one while not taking responsibility for our own flaws. After recently divorcing, I could go back to all of the flaws and things that stuck out at me about my husband that were weird or demonstrated what I call a "flag" for me. I chose to proceed and ignore my gut, ignore the flags. Later on............the same things I noted right away were nicely tucked away.......waiting to reappear and greet me like a bill at the first of the month. That thing never went away. Should I be mad at my husband because he was who he was and I chose to ignore or disregard what I saw with my eyes for something I could feel? I could..........but it's not right. He's not the first poor choice I made. I have to take responsibility for not taking the time to more closely examine my partner.

 

Sometimes we choose poorly. Sometimes we ignore practical wisdom to gamble on a chance for love (or a great connection). We take the risk, and sometimes we lose unfortunately. Yes we women are complicated, so are men. You have to look beyond the individual to see who they are. We are are childhoods, our parents, our environment, our old relationships, our negative, and our positive experiences. We are all humans. We all have issues, We all have baggage, and none of us are perfect. I have dated only men. I am in my first relationship with a woman. We are both older, mature, settled, and mentally/emotionally stable. Of course we have baggage, but we are willing to do the work to get to the meat of us. I do think knowing and understanding what you can and cannot tolerate, in addition to what you need are keys you need to have in hand prior to embarking on new searches for Ms. It.

 

I am older now. Not in a rush to find anything, realizing that everything that was in and on the market wasn't for me per se............I want a good relationship. A long-relationship. A happy and healthy relationship. This takes time. Time to look. Time to listen. Time to watch. Time to analyze/interpret. Time to fall in love, and then time to grow. Doesn't matter if it's a man or woman. Take your time going forward to first learn what you need, and what you want. Then find the person that can accommodate most of your needs/wants. The older you get, the less time you have to get it right. Take your time, do it right, and then make it last.

One last thing........................think positively. If you continue to keep talking about how bad things were..........you carry that negative energy with you. Drop that negativity off to the nearest dumpster and get a new attitude. Be positive............so that you can draw positive people and experiences into your personal space/atmosphere.

Best Wishes..............and I expect a good report in a few months :-)

 

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I have been with mostly men. I'm finding this discussion fascinating, because I have always found it easier to talk to and hang out with men, and have had fewer   female friends. I find that any attraction makes a mess of my female friendships, and when anything begins to emerge, I find the intensity of my feelings terrifying. It's as if getting turned on physically or emotionally is like engaging the self destruct sequence. I'm often the one who becomes crazy and fickle, though the same behavior in other women makes me feel insecure and unappealing. This may have a lot to do with why I "settled down" with a man.

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Yeah...men are way easier to date than women; however, men and women have their difficulties. I just got out of a relationship with a woman who waited 8 months to tell me that I wasn't her type. 8 freaking months wasted. At least guys, in my experience, tell you flat out. This guy I had been talking to online tells me that the pics I had were not accurate when I do not edit my photos at all. Needless to say, it was quick and easy to not waste 8 months of my life with someone who isn't into me at all. 

People are unpredictable, so we never know what they'll do...even if they flat out tell you to your face what they're doing. 

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On 5/4/2017 at 7:23 PM, BellaMynx said:

Yeah...men are way easier to date than women; however, men and women have their difficulties. I just got out of a relationship with a woman who waited 8 months to tell me that I wasn't her type. 8 freaking months wasted. At least guys, in my experience, tell you flat out. This guy I had been talking to online tells me that the pics I had were not accurate when I do not edit my photos at all. Needless to say, it was quick and easy to not waste 8 months of my life with someone who isn't into me at all. 

People are unpredictable, so we never know what they'll do...even if they flat out tell you to your face what they're doing. 

Still angry on your behalf for that episode. It's a shame that society teaches women to be so non-confrontational. Often, there ends up being more hurt than if the conflict was out in the open. I think this is the quality people generally mean when they talk about cattiness.

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On 5/5/2017 at 2:23 AM, BellaMynx said:

Yeah...men are way easier to date than women; however, men and women have their difficulties. I just got out of a relationship with a woman who waited 8 months to tell me that I wasn't her type. 8 freaking months wasted. At least guys, in my experience, tell you flat out. 

It isn't my intention to make excuses for the woman you dated, but I wonder if it wasn't a matter of waiting 8 months to tell you that you weren't her type, but that it actually took her 8 months to realize that you weren't really her type... In my experience, some women are like that... It isn't so much a matter of being excessively non-confrontational as not wanting to make the wrong decision and/or do the wrong thing...and not wanting to hurt the person they're dating. This sort of thinking can lead to indecisiveness and inaction... Do you know what I mean? That may come across as selfish and inconsiderate when you're on the receiving end, but if you look at it from the opposite perspective, as in the case of the woman you dated, it may have actually been a matter of thinking she was being kind and considerate to you, and wanting to give the relationship a chance... Men are far more selfish than women, so tend not to get caught up in that type of dilemma, and are far quicker to dispense with a relationship that doesn't meet their personal expectations. 

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1 hour ago, BenedettaC said:

It isn't my intention to make excuses for the woman you dated, but I wonder if it wasn't a matter of waiting 8 months to tell you that you weren't her type, but that it actually took her 8 months to realize that you weren't really her type... In my experience, some women are like that... It isn't so much a matter of being excessively non-confrontational as not wanting to make the wrong decision and/or do the wrong thing...and not wanting to hurt the person they're dating. This sort of thinking can lead to indecisiveness and inaction... Do you know what I mean? That may come across as selfish and inconsiderate when you're on the receiving end, but if you look at it from the opposite perspective, as in the case of the woman you dated, it may have actually been a matter of thinking she was being kind and considerate to you, and wanting to give the relationship a chance... Men are far more selfish than women, so tend not to get caught up in that type of dilemma, and are far quicker to dispense with a relationship that doesn't meet their personal expectations. 

See, I would have given her that benefit of a doubt, but she treated me poorly when I stayed with her. She lives in another state and I asked her if it was ok to fly to her for the first time. She was a horrible host and made me feel like I was a pebble in her shoe the whole time. Then to make matters worse, she left me up to their family friend whom I barely knew to take me to the airport to fly back home. Which that flight was just the icing on the cake. Had she left me after treating me kindly in her home, I wouldn't have been so bitter. She was horrible to me when I stayed with her. To me, if I don't like you back, I'd still make your stay comfortable. I would just kindly tell you that I'm not interested anymore. But her? No. It was as if she just couldn't wait to send me back to my home. She treated me as if I were an intruder in her home. I did not feel welcome. Her husband, whom I met that weekend, showed me more courtesy and kindness than she did. She barely talked to me the whole time. He and I would have conversations every evening before bed about gaming and other topics. He was very respectful to me. She acted like I was a disease and barely talked to me. 

Yes, men tend to be more callus, but for me, that is helpful because it helps me forget them faster. Sure, it sucks and it hurts horribly, but the pain a woman leaves me with stays for a long time and hurts more. Well, the women who I've left or left me at least. It is not to say that every woman is like this. 

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2 hours ago, ChemFem said:

Still angry on your behalf for that episode. It's a shame that society teaches women to be so non-confrontational. Often, there ends up being more hurt than if the conflict was out in the open. I think this is the quality people generally mean when they talk about cattiness.

Agreed! Girl, I had to literally tell myself that I'm better than how she treated me. I can keep my dignity and be respectful too. She was so disrespectful to me. I just can't. And the funny thing was that in the beginning, she approached me! 

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1 hour ago, BellaMynx said:

See, I would have given her that benefit of a doubt, but she treated me poorly when I stayed with her. She lives in another state and I asked her if it was ok to fly to her for the first time. She was a horrible host and made me feel like I was a pebble in her shoe the whole time. Then to make matters worse, she left me up to their family friend whom I barely knew to take me to the airport to fly back home. Which that flight was just the icing on the cake. Had she left me after treating me kindly in her home, I wouldn't have been so bitter. She was horrible to me when I stayed with her. To me, if I don't like you back, I'd still make your stay comfortable. I would just kindly tell you that I'm not interested anymore. But her? No. It was as if she just couldn't wait to send me back to my home. She treated me as if I were an intruder in her home. I did not feel welcome. Her husband, whom I met that weekend, showed me more courtesy and kindness than she did. She barely talked to me the whole time. He and I would have conversations every evening before bed about gaming and other topics. He was very respectful to me. She acted like I was a disease and barely talked to me. 

Yes, men tend to be more callus, but for me, that is helpful because it helps me forget them faster. Sure, it sucks and it hurts horribly, but the pain a woman leaves me with stays for a long time and hurts more. Well, the women who I've left or left me at least. It is not to say that every woman is like this. 

Yeah really the poor hosting seems like a bigger infringement than taking eight months to decide to break up. @BenedettaC you make a good point that indecision is understandable, but making yourself cruel to make a decision stick is not the way to go.

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