Spicysweet

Things have progressed quite a bit...

65 posts in this topic

Hey, all. Just wanted to update on how things are going with dh and I. Little backstory: He's known I was bi for a long time. We've used it a little to spice up our fantasy/sex life and such. This January, I developed a huge crush on a woman that I met through a work conference. I didn't tell him anything about it until 6 months later, when we had a shake up in our marriage due to another crush that came along (on a man.) He was upset about the man crush, but thought it was hot that I had a crush on a woman. He said that we should explore that side of me more often in our fantasies. Through lots and lots of talking during our period of reconciliation and rebuilding, we explored our feelings about the possibility of me having a girlfriend. We kinda went back and forth about it for a while. He said that he would feel really jealous if he wasn't involved in some way, and I told him I wasn't really interested in a threesome or him watching or anything. We hit a standstill for a while, and kept couching the conversation, but then it would come back up. We started reading Sex at Dawn together, watched some videos about polyamory and non-monogamy,  and listening to some sex podcasts on the same topics. Eventually, and slowly, he has opened up more. First, he said that he would be ok with me having my own relationship with a woman, but that it wouldn't seem fair if he couldn't also have the option of seeing other people. He said he never really wanted that, but he would feel left out if I was the only one getting action on the side. We kind of went two steps forward one step back like that for a while. Then we went and watched "Professor Marsten and the Wonder Women" together, and it was so sexy and sweet, and it was exciting to think of the possibility of finding a third (basically, a unicorn.) But the more we talked about it, and the more I read and thought about it, it seemed so unrealistic and improbable, and also maybe a little unfair to try to pigeonhole someone into that role. Of course, there are people out there who are looking for experiences with couples, but, I don't know...

So, then we started talking about the realities of trying to maintain any kind of non-traditional relationship discreetly, which we would need to do. It would be really hard. But our kids are all in Christian private schools, on scholarships, and I can't imagine it would go very well to be found out. So, we went back to the idea of just using my female attractions to spice up our intimacy; watching some ethical porn together, being flirty when we're out, and whatever. But THEN I found a really amazing lady on OKCupid and sent a message to her. I showed her profile to dh and he was like "yeah, she's definitely interesting." She may never respond, but anyway...that's where we are now.

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Great! Baby steps are good. You'll get there. I think with us, married women especially with children, we have to tread carefully and consider a lot of things. We can still be who we are but it's a hardwork. You're doing well. 

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Oh, I got in a hurry since it was almost time to pick up the kids and forgot to say that dh finally said that he is OK with me having my own girlfriend even if he doesn't have any part in it. It might be hard, but he doesn't feel like he would be too jealous. We'll see...

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Good luck! You're doing all the right things. Fingers crossed for OkCupid lady.

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I was in the same situation but my husband understood sometimes we have to have a way to release certain urges.   He has no problem with me seeing other women for sex as long as it doesn't become an affair with her.  I'm somewhat lucky that I'm friends with other women that feel the same way and aren't interested in a long term affair just occasionally getting together to explore female to female love.  My involvement with other women has actually improved my love life with my husband since when I desire being penetrate there's no better source than his penis.  It's not unusual for me to have wild sex with him and ride him like crazy after I've been with a woman.  There's something about making love to a man and  having a penis in you that no dildo can duplicate. :D  I realize that other women may feel different but that's what makes us unique. 

Edited by J-Net
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It's good that you two can communicate and keep open about it. As long as you're communicating then things should work out for you. Hopefully you'll both feel fulfilled and be able to have a good relationship.

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15 hours ago, J-Net said:

I was in the same situation but my husband understood sometimes we have to have a way to release certain urges.   He has no problem with me seeing other women for sex as long as it doesn't become an affair with her.  I'm somewhat lucky that I'm friends with other women that feel the same way and aren't interested in a long term affair just occasionally getting together to explore female to female love.  My involvement with other women has actually improved my love life with my husband since when I desire being penetrate there's no better source than his penis.  It's not unusual for me to have wild sex with him and ride him like crazy after I've been with a woman.  There's something about making love to a man and  having a penis in you that no dildo can duplicate. :D  I realize that other women may feel different but that's what makes us unique. 

Well guess that's why we have the label of being bi because we can enjoy either, however I only want to be with my woman. I've been married to a man twice and both of them cheated on me. I'm over that, but my fiance knows that I enjoyed it when I did have sex with a man. I don't miss it however and am perfectly content with how things are for her and I. We both love each other very much.

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So, no answer from the one I really wanted to hear from, but I got a response from another woman who's interested in threesomes, and a couple looking for another couple that has a lot of the same interests as us. We're not really interested in couple-couple action at this point, but it'd be nice to get to know some people who are in a similar place, and gawd, is she gorgeous. :blush:

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1 hour ago, Spicysweet said:

So, no answer from the one I really wanted to hear from, but I got a response from another woman who's interested in threesomes, and a couple looking for another couple that has a lot of the same interests as us. We're not really interested in couple-couple action at this point, but it'd be nice to get to know some people who are in a similar place, and gawd, is she gorgeous. :blush:

Yeah even if you don't want to hook up with the other couple they would be good people to talk to. Are they open to friendship or looking for something strictly sexual.

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8 hours ago, ChemFem said:

Yeah even if you don't want to hook up with the other couple they would be good people to talk to. Are they open to friendship or looking for something strictly sexual.

It sounds like they're open to friendship and only want anything sexual if it develops naturally out of that. I think we're gonna meet up. They seem really cool. We're texting and sending each other pictures. :lol:

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25 minutes ago, Spicysweet said:

It sounds like they're open to friendship and only want anything sexual if it develops naturally out of that. I think we're gonna meet up. They seem really cool. We're texting and sending each other pictures. :lol:

That sounds great! Yay new friends!

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On 10/24/2017 at 11:50 AM, J-Net said:

There's something about making love to a man and  having a penis in you that no dildo can duplicate. :D  

Lesbian sex is not a matter of 'duplicating' intercourse with a man... It definitely has it's own merits!

There is really nothing like sex with a woman who really knows how to f**k with her hands...and with her entire body...

 

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1 hour ago, Spicysweet said:

It sounds like they're open to friendship and only want anything sexual if it develops naturally out of that. I think we're gonna meet up. They seem really cool. We're texting and sending each other pictures. :lol:

That's awesome!! It's amazing having friends with similar interests, even if you're not sleeping with them. And if you get to know them, dynamics and desires might change.  You ladies may hit it off and they may be okay with just the two of you being sexually involved without the men.  Or you might find you're actually intrigued by a couple.  Husband and i were absolutely not looking for couple-couple action, just a woman (for either just me or both) neither of us liked the idea of another man involved, but we suddenly found ourselves messing around with my long-term crush and her husband.. completely took us off guard (especially because I'd wanted her for so long), and it's been a ton of fun. There's no swapping partners or touching between the guys (well.... except for once),  just us girls together and with our respective partners. I think the enjoyment factor has to do with who it is though, rather than the fact that it's a couple.  We're really close friends, and even closer now that that line has been crossed. 

Anyway! I hope things go well for you guys with them, and that you're able to connect and make friends with people who are interested in the things you're interested in. 

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On 10/24/2017 at 11:50 AM, J-Net said:

I was in the same situation but my husband understood sometimes we have to have a way to release certain urges.   He has no problem with me seeing other women for sex as long as it doesn't become an affair with her.  I'm somewhat lucky that I'm friends with other women that feel the same way and aren't interested in a long term affair just occasionally getting together to explore female to female love.  My involvement with other women has actually improved my love life with my husband since when I desire being penetrate there's no better source than his penis.  It's not unusual for me to have wild sex with him and ride him like crazy after I've been with a woman.  There's something about making love to a man and  having a penis in you that no dildo can duplicate. :D  I realize that other women may feel different but that's what makes us unique. 

Not to labour the point, but has it ever occurred to you that the reason why your husband has no problem with you 'seeing other women for sex as long as it doesn't become an affair' may be because he thinks it's fine to objectify women and just use them for sex? As we all know, this kind of attitude is rife in the male population all over the world, and it's all over the news right now, which ought to give us pause to consider the horrendous damage it's done to womankind, and how some women have actually adopted similar attitudes themselves.

I don't mean to be unkind, but it sounds as though you're just using those women that you're 'exploring female love' with, to prop up your marriage. From the sound of things, you have found other women 'who feel the same way' about avoiding deeper involvement, but what is that really all about?

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58 minutes ago, BenedettaC said:

Not to labour the point, but has it ever occurred to you that the reason why your husband has no problem with you 'seeing other women for sex as long as it doesn't become an affair' may be because he thinks it's fine to objectify women and just use them for sex? As we all know, this kind of attitude is rife in the male population all over the world, and it's all over the news right now, which ought to give us pause to consider the horrendous damage it's done to womankind, and how some women have actually adopted similar attitudes themselves.

I don't mean to be unkind, but it sounds as though you're just using those women that you're 'exploring female love' with, to prop up your marriage. From the sound of things, you have found other women 'who feel the same way' about avoiding deeper involvement, but what is that really all about?

Would it be different if he were okay with her sleeping with other men as long as there was no emotional involvement? Are friends with benefits only okay as long as it's a male? Or should we all only sleep with people we're committed to regardless of gender? It sounds like the women she's involved with are on the same page as she is, and as long as feelings are taken into consideration and communication is abundant, i don't see this as objectifying women.  

I care deeply for the woman I'm sleeping with, and really don't desire any other woman now that I'm involved with her. But that doesn't mean i want to divorce my husband and marry her.  And i don't want to sleep with another man. My husband has stated that if i wanted to, i could because I'm in charge of the decisions i make, but that he'd feel more insecure about himself and whether he's satisfying me than he does with me sleeping with a woman. Because he has a penis and he'd like to believe his is enough for me. He does not, however, have a vagina, so he can't help me in that arena,  and therefore doesn't feel his penis is inadequate because a vagina and a penis are very different things. So while objectification of women does happen way too much, i would hesitate to describe every instance of this as objectifying women.  Details are key before we jump to conclusions. 

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I agree some with each of what @BenedettaC and @Ambrosia are saying. In this specific instance it seems like everybody is on equal footing and all are being open about what they need and want. Well and good. However it is well worth considering as a larger question. Casual sex does not necessarily imply objectification, it is true. It's fully possible to see someone else as a complex and complete individual pursuing their own goals, one of which is to get eaten out by a stranger. ;) Conversely, there are cases in which people profess a strong emotional commitment to their partner, yet seem incapable of conceiving of them as anything more than an extension of themselves. Whether we like it or not, we still live in a society that treats men's desires as more valid and important than women's. In questioning our own motives, we have an opportunity for richer relationships of all types. 

\essay

@Spicysweet sorry we're turning your advice thread into a mini-seminar on queer feminism. Hopefully it's still helpful.

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4 minutes ago, Ambrosia said:

Would it be different if he were okay with her sleeping with other men as long as there was no emotional involvement? Are friends with benefits only okay as long as it's a male? Or should we all only sleep with people we're committed to regardless of gender? It sounds like the women she's involved with are on the same page as she is, and as long as feelings are taken into consideration and communication is abundant, i don't see this as objectifying women.  

I'm talking about male sexist objectification of women, so yes, it would be different if her husband had the same view toward men (although on a certain level, objectification is objectification, whatever the person's gender)...but I'm guessing that, like many other Shy members' husbands, he probably doesn't view the possibility of her sleeping with other men as acceptable, because that would be threatening to his masculinity. Of course, this is just my hypothesis, partially based on reading numerous Shy posts of a similar nature over the past year...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging people who are into FWB relationships, or any other kind of (legal) consensual relationship, but that particular post rang some bells!  :huh:

16 minutes ago, Ambrosia said:

I care deeply for the woman I'm sleeping with, and really don't desire any other woman now that I'm involved with her. But that doesn't mean i want to divorce my husband and marry her.  And i don't want to sleep with another man. My husband has stated that if i wanted to, i could because I'm in charge of the decisions i make, but that he'd feel more insecure about himself and whether he's satisfying me than he does with me sleeping with a woman. Because he has a penis and he'd like to believe his is enough for me. He does not, however, have a vagina, so he can't help me in that arena,  and therefore doesn't feel his penis is inadequate because a vagina and a penis are very different things. So while objectification of women does happen way too much, i would hesitate to describe every instance of this as objectifying women.  Details are key before we jump to conclusions. 

Does your attraction to women, and your erotic or sexual relationships with them really just come down to the difference between a penis and vagina? 

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3 minutes ago, ChemFem said:

I agree some with each of what @BenedettaC and @Ambrosia are saying. In this specific instance it seems like everybody is on equal footing and all are being open about what they need and want. Well and good. However it is well worth considering as a larger question. Casual sex does not necessarily imply objectification, it is true. It's fully possible to see someone else as a complex and complete individual pursuing their own goals, one of which is to get eaten out by a stranger. ;) Conversely, there are cases in which people profess a strong emotional commitment to their partner, yet seem incapable of conceiving of them as anything more than an extension of themselves. Whether we like it or not, we still live in a society that treats men's desires as more valid and important than women's. In questioning our own motives, we have an opportunity for richer relationships of all types. 

\essay

@Spicysweet sorry we're turning your advice thread into a mini-seminar on queer feminism. Hopefully it's still helpful.

I'm all for casual sex by mutual consent!  But yes, it's the larger issue of male objectification of women, and how that sometimes rubs off on bisexual women who are are married to or in other types of romantic/sexual relationships with men.

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:lol: All interesting points. I'm learning a lot...I think.

To continue my original thread, though, threesome woman got back to me today and sent me a nude photo. :O This is moving fast! I don't even know what to do right now!

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33 minutes ago, Spicysweet said:

:lol: All interesting points. I'm learning a lot...I think.

To continue my original thread, though, threesome woman got back to me today and sent me a nude photo. :O This is moving fast! I don't even know what to do right now!

Beware of women who send nude photos too quickly... :evilgrin:

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Just now, BenedettaC said:

Beware of women who send nude photos too quickly... :evilgrin:

Yeah that does seem a little odd. @Spicysweet Did you ask for it or did she send it unbidden? If it made you uncomfortable then tell her. There's nothing wrong with establishing boundaries. But if you liked it and it turned you on also tell her that! Positive feedback between (potential) lovers is as important as saying what you don't like.

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45 minutes ago, BenedettaC said:

I'm talking about male sexist objectification of women, so yes, it would be different if her husband had the same view toward men (although on a certain level, objectification is objectification, whatever the person's gender)...but I'm guessing that, like many other Shy members' husbands, he probably doesn't view the possibility of her sleeping with other men as acceptable, because that would be threatening to his masculinity. Of course, this is just my hypothesis, partially based on reading numerous Shy posts of a similar nature over the past year...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging people who are into FWB relationships, or any other kind of (legal) consensual relationship, but that particular post rang some bells!  :huh:

But she didn't explain WHY her husband feels that way, so it's making assumptions that he's just objectifying women.  Insecurity and feeling inadequate are also reasons why a man might feel this way, and that's a far cry from objectifying.  He very well may view it as a threat to his masculinity, but that has more to do with the thought that another man might be more desirable or better at it than he is.  Or he may be objectifying women. The thing is, we don't have any insight on his reasons, so we shouldn't assume. 

 

1 hour ago, BenedettaC said:

Does your attraction to women, and your erotic or sexual relationships with them really just come down to the difference between a penis and vagina? 

Of course not, it comes down to difference in intimacy, difference in sensuality, difference in communication, difference in appearance, difference in connection, difference in energy, difference in interaction, difference in feeling, both emotional and physical. (Note my statement that I'm emotionally attached to my girl, which means who she is and the feelings she gives me, not just the presence of her vagina). Penis and vagina are the simplistic bare bones level of difference.  But to dive into all of the above just to demonstrate that there is a difference in gender and that some of us desire both would have been painfully wordy and really not relevant to my point. 

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14 minutes ago, ChemFem said:

Yeah that does seem a little odd. @Spicysweet Did you ask for it or did she send it unbidden? If it made you uncomfortable then tell her. There's nothing wrong with establishing boundaries. 

Well...it's like erotic premature ejaculation... Too much too soon... 

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8 minutes ago, BenedettaC said:

Well...it's like erotic premature ejaculation... Too much too soon... 

 Hahaha that's a mental image I won't forget anytime soon. Maybe there is a less phallocentric way of conveying this though? After all you were the one who said lesbian sex should be about more than imitating men. :P

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2 minutes ago, Ambrosia said:

But she didn't explain WHY her husband feels that way, so it's making assumptions that he's just objectifying women.  Insecurity and feeling inadequate are also reasons why a man might feel this way, and that's a far cry from objectifying.  He very well may view it as a threat to his masculinity, but that has more to do with the thought that another man might be more desirable or better at it than he is.  Or he may be objectifying women. The thing is, we don't have any insight on his reasons, so we shouldn't assume. 

If you read my comments more closely, you'll see that I'm just posing questions and approaching the issues hypothetically, not making ironclad assumptions. 

8 minutes ago, Ambrosia said:

Of course not, it comes down to difference in intimacy, difference in sensuality, difference in communication, difference in appearance, difference in connection, difference in energy, difference in interaction, difference in feeling, both emotional and physical. (Note my statement that I'm emotionally attached to my girl, which means who she is and the feelings she gives me, not just the presence of her vagina). Penis and vagina are the simplistic bare bones level of difference.  But to dive into all of the above just to demonstrate that there is a difference in gender and that some of us desire both would have been painfully wordy and really not relevant to my point. 

Gotcha!

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