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Feeling melancholy of late.  Lonely too.  So probably shouldn't post, but will since others might be in the same boat???

Yes I'm attracted to women.  I'm okay with that.  I say I'm okay with that because I'm a late bloomer and adjusting to a new/different orientation took a lot of work (acceptance, etc). Even to the point of coming out as bi to those closest to me, including husband.

Not long after I decided to jump in and embrace bisexuality, whereby I was involved with other women.

But.  I found the poly lifestyle wasn't for me.  Nor is exchanging my husband for a woman (I feel I'd be plagued by the same problems - loneliness,  which gender/sexual orientation doesn't fix/support, etc).  And yet, I'm yearning for the closeness of a woman.  Just as I'd be yearning the closeness of a man if I were partnered with a woman.  

At the same time, I'm not into sharing, such as a triad situation.  I'm a monogamous being... which I discovered whilst on this path.

I see women I'd date every day and it sucks! It sucks that I can't [date] because of my stupid monogamous values.  I see men I'd date too, if I were single.

So there it is.  I feel trapped in this bisexual fluid mind f* 

Can anyone relate? If you can, you have my empathy.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 I would say, yes, to a degree, I think I can relate.  I am not so sure that I could truly completely positively "function" 100% well in a triad situation or polyamory....  but part of me also really does think....I could....?  But then you mention these "monogamous values" and yes, I think that would be the one key thing nibbling at the back of my mind....that whispering voice (Society's voice, isn't it?) fighting hard to try and make me feel bad about loving a man and simultaneously loving a woman.

One thing I definitely have begun to wonder about of late (been wondering a lot of things of late, but this most prominently), and I just pose this as a hypothetical philosophical question (so please, nobody jump on me, as I am not trying to "advocate" anything one way or another)....but I wonder....is adherence to "monagamous values" something we have, pardon my choice of words, been "brainwashed" into?  I truly have started to wonder about this.  Philosophically.  And wonder what you might think?  Is it something just "in us" that we feel?  Or is it something from outside of us that we internalized along the way.....? 

I did come back to edit this to add though that what you said @these-broken-wings(TBW) about exchanging your husband for a woman would still leave you with the same problems, was actually a very insightful point.... that I think maybe some bi women don't entirely consider.  That ole "grass is always greener" saying, you know?  A trap we could still fall into.....

Yea, these things all do make me a little bit melancholy sometimes.  But then I still remember, that even if I don't have a perfect life, don't have (can't have) everything I want and desire and crave, I do still have plenty of good things to be grateful for.  Perhaps when your melancholy lifts a little, you might feel that way too? 

Thank you for posting your thoughts.

 
Edited by CallistoDidNotWin
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4 hours ago, CallistoDidNotWin said:

One thing I definitely have begun to wonder about of late (been wondering a lot of things of late, but this most prominently), and I just pose this as a hypothetical philosophical question (so please, nobody jump on me, as I am not trying to "advocate" anything one way or another)....but I wonder....is adherence to "monagamous values" something we have, pardon my choice of words, been "brainwashed" into?  I truly have started to wonder about this.  Philosophically.  And wonder what you might think?  Is it something just "in us" that we feel?  Or is it something from outside of us that we internalized along the way.....? 

I'm glad you didn't edit it.

Yes I totally understand where you are coming from.  I too thought the same and I wish it was a matter of being brainwashed.  I'm a rebel by nature and would have philosophied my way out of it anyway *wink*

But.  I'm afraid its boils down to my wiring (or rather, what sits well in my heart). 

I can't quite work out 'why' I'm not totally happy, and it's a scary thing! Loneliness sits at the top.  I'd say I was asexual (or whatever label anyone wants to place on a person who doesn't make sexual intimacy a priority in a relationship, so it's not as simple as female vs male, ie sex being better with one over the other).  In other words, I can't guarantee a woman will fix anything.  I'm one of those people who can feel lonely in a crowded room.

I know my concern probably stems from from some unresolved issue.  But dang, it's like seeing candy and knowing that even though you'd enjoy it, it solves nothing whilst on a diet. 

Thank you @CallistoDidNotWin for reminding me to be thankful for what I have.   I do have a LOT to be thankful for.

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I would say it is that we are socialized to value monogamy. There are social science theories on how monogamy serves men in assuring their children are indeed theirs, and this happens best in a monogamous relationship. 

Just as we can love two parents, or two or more children, we can love more than one person at the same time. If we are open to this idea, we can recognize and love the qualities each person brings into our lives. This may not make sense to everyone, but it makes sense to me. My observation (not experience, not yet!) is that for a poly arrangement to work, all parties should communicate clearly all expectations and needs, so there will be no doubt or confusion about what's happening and with whom. 

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Thank you @MidnightBabe

Theory is one thing, experience is another.  I'm talking from experience. I have the green light from hubby and open communication.  If only having sex with a women would solve the issue, or even being in a relationship.  Sadly I take my issues with me regardless of who I date.

 

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@these-broken-wings(TBW) 

Yes, you are trapped if you see it that way. Trapped in your bisexual fluid mind and having monogamous values. But you are the one who made the rules for yourself. Time would tell when you’re going to bend, break or still stick to your rules. 

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@MidnightBabe I love your analogies. I have never thought of the mother/father, children comparison when conceptualizing the human heart’s capacity to deeply love more than one person (on the same plane/with the same intensity) (so to speak). This makes me feel better ...:) Like I’ve been having this serious sort of ‘cognitive dissonance’ with who I thought I was ... my values & such (loyal/faithful & honest for example) and both my desires over the last decade & (as a married woman) how I have behaved on occasions :/ I don’t want to use this as a convenient excuse for shitty behavior of course- lol (as I still shouldn’t cheat on my husband on any level- emotional or otherwise)...  I guess I have just been feeling broken & needy ... wondering why I crave to give & receive so much... attention, affection, connection. I guess reading these words or using this analogy helps me feel more human-? (I have more than one child so of course it makes sense that I can love more than one ;) Thank You.

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@Delia I am glad my analogies were helpful. It's so hard to make shar of some of these feelings, and it helps when we connect with someone else who gets it. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to chat further. I think we have a few things in common. 

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9 hours ago, blueberry said:

@these-broken-wings(TBW) 

Time would tell when you’re going to bend, break or still stick to your rules. 

It will indeed.  It will indeed.

Cognitive dissonance huh.  The heart and head are on the same page this time and I'm still conflicted.

The thing is, both a penis and vagina are ugly imo.  So its definitely an attraction to qualities. And looks.  But nothing below the belt.

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I struggled for such a long time with cognitive dissonance as I came to terms with my sexuality over the last 10 or so years. Wanting to be with a woman in so many ways and anytime I thought this would never happen due to being married already (before the awakening as such) it would make me weep! 

I certainly did not want to end my marriage to have these experience with females so I looked at other options while protecting my marriage.

I could not open up my marriage completely especially as my DH is monogamous (But I dread to think what would have happened to our relationship if I had pushed polyamory in order to have a relationship with a woman - it does not bear thinking about as I think my heart may have broken)

However after many years of conversation, some late into the night, I found a way that works for us.

Gendered Monogamy - I will stay married (and very happily so) to my DH and not have relationships with other men however I will have a relationship with a woman too (only 1 woman at a time if I am lucky enough to have found someone that clicks). I have done this in the past and it is still not 100% perfect of a fit for me but it is something that sits with me much better than totally open polyamory. It is only due to my bisexuality and the fact that there are things (not always necessarily sexual) that my DH is just not able to provide and there are strong needs that surface from time to time. If DH was bisexual I would like to think I would find it in my heart to have the same arrangements for him too.

 

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Posted (edited)

@these-broken-wings(TBW) I used to feel the same way about the below the belt. And then I progressed to an obsession with breasts . Ha! Including my own which I had done. Lmao. I used to think the lady parts would always be a no-go... like I appreciated what a vagina could do- bring forth life , give pleasure ... but at the same time it kinda grossed me out... was taboo, and definitely not to be looked at or talked about ... ha! But then I don’t know- like a switch was flipped or something and I’ve been liberated... Something changed and I’m so into it now. Every fantasy is me licking the perfect pussy. Haha haha... and I So now I accept (outside of my fantasies ) that the vagina is just so hot . And Amazing . And now I geneuinely think it’s beautiful.  Ps- so far this has just been a fantasy :(:)

Edited by Delia
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9 hours ago, femmekat said:

Gendered Monogamy - I will stay married (and very happily so) to my DH and not have relationships with other men however I will have a relationship with a woman too (only 1 woman at a time if I am lucky enough to have found someone that clicks). I have done this in the past and it is still not 100% perfect of a fit for me but it is something that sits with me much better than totally open polyamory. It is only due to my bisexuality and the fact that there are things (not always necessarily sexual) that my DH is just not able to provide and there are strong needs that surface from time to time. 

Thank you for your beautiful post femmekat.

Yes I viewed my relationships as being gendered monogamous too.  Sadly, it still didnt quite fit for me either.  This is the part that saddens me.  

For example, when I see the type (yes I have a type) that attracts my attention,  I'm instantly weak at the knees, just want to run and hug her and learn as much as I can about her.  It's like finding my people.  Just the other day I saw this lady grabbing coffee at a cafe and I wanted to walk up to her and say "you're the kind of women I'd like to date.  Where do all your people hang out?"

Desperate much?

And then I'm left feeling sad because I know gendered monogamy doesn't quite fit.  Even if there is no physical intimacy.

Until I overcome the underlying psychological issue, I'm going to remain boundaried.  Sadly.  

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I appreciate the gendered monogamy model if it works, makes sense for me too.  As for the sexual “acts” i never in a million years thought I’d ever orally please a woman, wasn’t even in the realm of possibility in my mind for 38 years....until it was.  It was one of the most natural & incredibly exciting experiences I’ve ever had and I never looked back.  

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Been there done that.  It was exciting as blowing a man.  Didn't turn me on.  I did it because it turned her on.  And I'd do it again with the woman I'm in love with, if its something that she enjoys.

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@these-broken-wings(TBW) I know what u mean about a type & yet can’t put words to it... what mine is ...it’s so nuanced... and yet I find so many things intriguing and beautiful when I see them, that what I find attracts me physically might not sustain my attention and what actually might grab me/ make me weak ;) could be something so unexpected and ‘off-type.’ Willing to share what you gravitate towards? 

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Aww thanks @Delia

If I had to pick one person (to give you an idea), it would be Shuhada Davitt (formerly Sinead O'Connor). Her eyes, nose, teeth, smile, shape face, hair (or lack of it), freckles, feminist views, voice, accent and age.  I have no idea what her personality is like, but if we're only going by looks, that's it.

So when I see similar women I want to get to know them on a personal level.  

What's your type Delia?

 

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She is Beautiful. For me... it’s the way she carries herself... moves, laughs, her eyes , love legs ... dimples smile... passion, sass -lol

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On 3/16/2019 at 10:54 AM, these-broken-wings(TBW) said:

Been there done that.  It was exciting as blowing a man. 

Hmm, much as I like blowing my man when I really, really want him, I don’t think it’s the same with women (at least for me). With my man, I would want to do it if I need him sexually and my body is wanting him as his wife. I need to have the “need” to enjoy blowing him. With women, I get excited even if I don’t have the needs. I guess, I just love female sex naturally. 

On 3/16/2019 at 10:54 AM, these-broken-wings(TBW) said:

Didn't turn me on.  I did it because it turned her on.  And I'd do it again with the woman I'm in love with, if its something that she enjoys.

Interesting. I can’t do it. Anything that is sexual should be mutual in my book. 

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Posted (edited)

I think it is quite normal to have this kind of internal conflict and I don’t think something must be wrong with you.

Quite obviously both poly and mono models have their appeals and weaknesses. I think the question goes even deeper than just culture or ‘brainwashing’. Both kinds of mating strategies are well presented in the nature also in other species (tournament vs pair-bonding, a fascinating topic to bore into). Humans like many things are somewhere in between. That’s what has made us so fantastically adaptable and successful as a species but the price we pay is this tension.

There may be a problem with polyamory when it becomes widespread in a society. Well, the problem is more with polygamy where the high status males cream the women and which is also more common. Polyandry is much less common and seems to be restricted to very harsh environments where 2 men, usually brothers, are needed to support the family. Why the prevalence of monogamy in the world of today? My guess is that large numbers of men left without mate prospects are a destabilizing force in a society, and those societies have been out competed by the more stable ones. Here may lie a reason why we have inherited a culture that “brainwashes” us into having monogamous values.

This is the past, but which truths will hold true in the future, I don’t know… Our environment and conditions have gone through such drastic and rapid change. The biggest thing when it comes to sexual behaviour has been reliable birth control. It has been around only half a century, a blink of an eye in the scale of history really. What will be the full effects of this seismic shift on our culture, how will it affect the architecture of the human society and relationship between the sexes? I doubt we have seen it yet and I don’t think anybody knows what it will be like.

Bisexuality is an interesting factor in this issue. Could we as humans become more like our cousins bonobos where females are using sex to build social bonds and ease tensions between themselves? :)

 

Edited by tsikk
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Been struggling for many years with bi ideas. Was married for 20 years. Struggled with raising my 5 girls while trying to stay supportive for my declining spouse. He passed away 7 years ago.

Had two short relationships with men in the last few years. Relatively unsatisfied. Just can't drop the ideas of loving a woman. Religious ideas keep me somewhat celibate, until I finally crack. Just want to be free! But have lived a mostly hindered life. Have had a few amazing girl crushes, but don't usually allow myself such luscious thoughts. 

The burning hatred for the self that can't get over these feelings come out in writhing pain at times. Just don't want to stay hindered forever!

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I could definitely see myself married to a woman.  Its nice to know I can be accepted for being attracted to women without having to be physically attracted to women. 

I'm enjoying my bi-ness with the knowledge that women aren't labeling me or bi-erasing my bi/gayness due to lack of physical attraction.

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I just wanted to chime in with a little of my own experience, and the fact that I came to a conclusion similar to @tsikkwhen she said that both poly and mono models have their appeals and weaknesses.

I'd been monogamous since I started dating 11 years ago, and when I met my now-fiancée who is polyamorous about 2 years ago I agreed to give it a try. It's turned out that I can do both monogamy and polyamory, depending on the relationship dynamic, and I've learned a lot comparing notes (so to speak) about the pros and cons of both lifestyles. There are a lot of things to gain from being polyam, but it also brings with it a lot of struggles too. And some people are simply more comfortable with monogamy, which is okay! 

One thing I've learned is that whatever your hangups are, or emotional baggage you have, they will follow you and likely be magnified by polyamory. I've been faced with a lot of personal anxieties and insecurities I didn't know I had since we opened up our relationship. That's why I think it's a really difficult but also a really good thing for some people (like myself): as long as I'm willing to actively work on myself and my relationship(s), polyam is shining a light on things I likely would have been overlooking entirely in a monogamous relationship.

That being said, you know yourself, OP. If you truly believe you are monogamous to your core, then rock it. And I honestly do imagine that, between introspection, talking to your husband, and insight from like-minded lovelies on here, you'll find some outlet or arrangement that will help you.

At the same time, I would advise against setting perpetual boundaries in your own mind on what you are or aren't. I was passionately monogamous for a long time, and didn't understand or desire anything non-monogamous. Now, I'm learning to find some freedom and growth in it. That might not ever be something we share, but I do hope you allow yourself the chance to work through your struggles and find solutions in potentially unexpected ways.

@MidnightBabe Shout-out for your lovely analogy. It's one of my favorite insights into how polyamory functions!

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@these-broken-wings(TBW) Tl;dr: Feel free to PM me if you'd like! I'm all for whatever healthy dynamics work for people, and I would be happy to be a sounding board if you want to talk about your likes or frustrations in monogamy or polyamory.

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Thank you @ThatElf that means a lot.

I've been talking with hubby about attending LGBT events as a couple.  He's okay with it.  I told him that when I've attended events in the past, I've been viewed as... well let's just say lesbians can be bi-phobic and I've never felt welcome in a womens LGBTQ group.  Even when I've come clean about 'not being single' it's the same old storyline "so where's your partner?" Umm... given it's an LGBTQ womens group where do you think???  And while I'm at it "wtf do you think B stands for?" (Sorry, went off tangent and letting a bit of steam go).

Anyway, needless to say, I've heard/seen enough biphobic nonsense which has only left me feeling like scum on the bottom of a shoe.  Because 'ewww... you are one of them'.  I've had conversations end, ladies turn their back on me - freeze me out, to being told "oh, I was married to one once, and had children" as if the person was a sperm donating object.

BUT!  The exciting part is I found what looks like a hetero (have no clue what their orientation is, and really don't care) couple who attends LGBTQ events and I'm working with him tomorrow.  This excites me no end!  It means hubby and I can attend without me having to 'hide my dirty little secret' aka being married to a man.  I will be in a position to live and be seen as a bisexual!  I'm friggin excited hubby is happy to support me at these events because it means we get to go to LGBTQ movies with others (aka socialise). I've felt so isolated and lonely,  this (shys) has been the only place I can talk openly,  and I'm hoping (fingers crossed), that I'll find my peeps in rl.

Wish me luck!

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@these-broken-wings(TBW) That's a fantastic development, I'm excited for you!

There can definitely be some biphobia in LGBTQ+ spaces, though I'm finding that time is slowly changing a lot of it. I'm familiar with some of the less than kind commentary from ignorant folk toward bisexuals in hetero/hetero-passing relationships. Hang in there! You are not alone in this and you are totally valid. And I know you can find the support and representation you're seeking.

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